Author Topic: The BEAT DOWN ROOM (BDR)  (Read 96818 times)

Rockox

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Re: The BEAT DOWN ROOM (BDR)
« Reply #810 on: May 14, 2018, 03:24:49 PM »
But that's what I mean. Blackbird spends a few years shitting on Jason Slater, but when it's convenient for Blackbird, and when they find a common ground (which is both getting dumped by members of Queensryche, apparently. Hahaha), then they're the best of pals.
That Man/Machine Imperfection guy didn't post too much, but he was pretty much always right.

Operation:Queensr˙che

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Re: The BEAT DOWN ROOM (BDR)
« Reply #811 on: May 14, 2018, 08:40:30 PM »
But that's what I mean. Blackbird spends a few years shitting on Jason Slater, but when it's convenient for Blackbird, and when they find a common ground (which is both getting dumped by members of Queensryche, apparently. Hahaha), then they're the best of pals.


I agree Rock, it's definitely questionable--- at the very least!  ???

Rockox

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Re: The BEAT DOWN ROOM (BDR)
« Reply #812 on: May 29, 2018, 09:19:40 AM »
This was a post by Blackbird in September of 2016 on the BDR after Todd posted some anti-police stuff on his Facebook page. I think this was touched on at some point here, but I might as well put up Blackbird’s entire post, because it’s hilarious reading how Blackbird had issue with how Todd ran his FB page, when Blackbird himself did a lot of the same things on the BDR that he’s criticizing Todd for here. 

“Even though I disagree with Todd on the point, it’s not the issue itself I am focused on, personally. Using the band page, to make very aggressive statements against a group that his employer has made a career of supporting is not a wise move. At all.

“If Todd uses his personal profile to rant about it, well, that’s one thing. But this isn’t that. I understand your point about having the discussion being important, Tacomaryche, but Todd’s not looking to discuss. He’s looking to spout off, and then disagree with anyone who counters him.

“He absolutely hates people coming back at him. And on his band page, representing himself as the lead singer of Queensryche, it doesn’t invite discussion. It becomes Todd saying what he wants, fans fawning over him and backing him up, and those that disagree being attacked not by “Todd,” but rather the lead singer of Queensryche.

“It does not help the band’s image at all. And I wonder, if asked, what Michael, Scott and Eddie would have to say about Todd spouting off against cops on a platform where Todd speaks as the singer of QR, and interacts with fans, as opposed to his personal, friends and family profile.”
That Man/Machine Imperfection guy didn't post too much, but he was pretty much always right.

Dream Evil

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Re: The BEAT DOWN ROOM (BDR)
« Reply #813 on: May 29, 2018, 03:46:03 PM »
man, those third and fourth sentences sure are the pot calling the kettle black huh  ::) :D he just described himself to a T there, oh that's right he was referring to Todd. My bad  >:D

Operation:Queensr˙che

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Re: The BEAT DOWN ROOM (BDR)
« Reply #814 on: June 13, 2018, 02:10:55 PM »
This part from the thread struck me as... Ironic

"Just a very strange dynamic (between Tate and Witon). Slater's commentary in the podcast about the guys, at least from my two years or so of being much more involved with them was pretty spot-on. They all seem cool when you're talking to them, and when they need something from you, they'll be your best friend. But the moment they don't - its like you don't exist, and they become completely different. I can tell you from experiencing that from them first-hand, Slater is absolutely right about that."


To go back to this quote for a second, it begs the question. I really hope somebody can answer this:


What EXACTLY did the members of Queensryche ever "need" from End Of Line, formerly known as Rustvold ?  :D...::)

It seems to me that the BAND handed him all the opportunities like writing for the official newsletter at one point, free tickets, backstage passes, granting him three interviews over five years, etc.

And yet, he still believes the band owes him more because of his former message board?  ::)

WOW! Unreal.
  ???... :-[




Rockox

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Re: The BEAT DOWN ROOM (BDR)
« Reply #815 on: June 14, 2018, 12:16:56 PM »
What EXACTLY did the members of Queensryche ever "need" from End Of Line, formerly known as Rustvold ? 

The band "needed" Blackbird the same way they needed all their fans: To support and promote the band and to support and promote the brand. Especially during the "Tateryche" era when people gave less than two shits about the band. As critical as Blackbird was of some of their choices, he was still more or less supporting and promoting them all the way.
That Man/Machine Imperfection guy didn't post too much, but he was pretty much always right.

Operation:Queensr˙che

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Re: The BEAT DOWN ROOM (BDR)
« Reply #816 on: June 14, 2018, 02:46:32 PM »
What EXACTLY did the members of Queensryche ever "need" from End Of Line, formerly known as Rustvold ? 

The band "needed" Blackbird the same way they needed all their fans: To support and promote the band and to support and promote the brand. Especially during the "Tateryche" era when people gave less than two shits about the band. As critical as Blackbird was of some of their choices, he was still more or less supporting and promoting them all the way.


.....until EOL wanted and expected more out of it, which he apparently didn't get. Just saying.  ;)

Rockox

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Re: The BEAT DOWN ROOM (BDR)
« Reply #817 on: June 15, 2018, 10:00:05 AM »
Oh for sure. What Queensryche needed Blackbird for was clearly not what he perceived them to need him for.

So let’s unpack this. Blackbird started the BDR somewhere around 2004, right as the “Tateryche” era was taking off. So at that time, Blackbird likely thought the Queensryche fans needed a voice that wasn’t being silenced by the Tates. During the ten years when Blackbird was banging the drum for a change in the band, I’m sure the rest of the guys in the band certainly appreciated his tireless efforts. Sure he might’ve been anti-Tate, but he was still pro-Queensryche.

We’ve talked a bit about this in this forum, the fact that Blackbird was a raging Queensryche fanboy during those years (despite all the criticisms he may have had), and Blackbird was like an unpaid street team marketing guy. He was the kind of fan who would happily plaster 100 gig posters around his town for free, just so he could say he did his part and hopefully be rewarded in kind by the band with a free triryche pin.

And the band’s thinking was probably “if this nutjob of a fan wants to take it upon himself to be the expert of all things Queensryche and talk about the band all the time – especially during a time when no one is talking about us – then he’s welcome to it.”

Granted, when the legal issues started with band, you could argue that what QR needed was to win the popular opinion amongst fans, and Blackbird certainly made that his mission within the BDR. I’ve said this before, but it’s as if Blackbird said to the band “I know you guys can’t say anything particularly negative about Tate in the press, but I have the platform of the BDR which will allow me to fucking ruin him. At the same time, I’ll prop you guys up. So you keep quiet, I’ll happily do all the work.”

Now did the band specifically need Blackbird? No, they just needed fans like him who would HEY HEY LISTEN TO ME about how bad Tate was and how good the rest of the band was. Not to mention gushing over how good La Torre was. And Blackbird was more than happy to do it, because of his axe to grind with Tate.

I still think my previous description of Blackbird as a disgruntled employee is pretty spot-on. As insane as it sounds, Blackbird probably even considered himself to be an unofficial member of their team, but doing it on the fringe within BDR, promoting the band, promoting Todd and disparaging Tate. And the QR guys were fine with it, because why wouldn’t they be? Some crazy fan willing to put in all that work for FREE? Fuck yes, that was fine with them.

Once the legal dispute was winding down, Blackbird probably came knocking on their door, expecting a handout, maybe even a job as a promoter, who knows. And they told him to go fly a kite. And that’s when all of Blackbird’s anti-QR, anti-Todd behaviour started happening (selling his Rising West stuff, deleting posts, leaving RTM, blowing up the Batcave BDR). So I can totally appreciate where Blackbird would think he was "needed" during that time and how he should’ve got something to show for it.

But he was wrong. ;D
That Man/Machine Imperfection guy didn't post too much, but he was pretty much always right.

NJFIREFIGHTER

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Re: The BEAT DOWN ROOM (BDR)
« Reply #818 on: June 15, 2018, 12:39:11 PM »
That is an excellent analogy and perspective and probably very close to how the situation played out rock  8)
By the way, I gotta say since I've been this forum, and certainly since taking it over and running it (in fact even before then) I've been a major supporter of Todd and the band, been kinder than most to Geoff and operation mindcrine ( the band) and have pretty much supported and propped up both. Where's my fuckin free pair of tickets, backstage meet and greet pass and signed 8x10 (from both of them) lol  ;D feel free members of either to sign up with a inconspicuous account and give me details on how to claim my prize  8)
Champion of the Queensryche Board Wars :)

Operation:Queensr˙che

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Re: The BEAT DOWN ROOM (BDR)
« Reply #819 on: June 15, 2018, 07:05:11 PM »
Oh for sure. What Queensryche needed Blackbird for was clearly not what he perceived them to need him for.

So let’s unpack this. Blackbird started the BDR somewhere around 2004, right as the “Tateryche” era was taking off. So at that time, Blackbird likely thought the Queensryche fans needed a voice that wasn’t being silenced by the Tates. During the ten years when Blackbird was banging the drum for a change in the band, I’m sure the rest of the guys in the band certainly appreciated his tireless efforts. Sure he might’ve been anti-Tate, but he was still pro-Queensryche.

We’ve talked a bit about this in this forum, the fact that Blackbird was a raging Queensryche fanboy during those years (despite all the criticisms he may have had), and Blackbird was like an unpaid street team marketing guy. He was the kind of fan who would happily plaster 100 gig posters around his town for free, just so he could say he did his part and hopefully be rewarded in kind by the band with a free triryche pin.

And the band’s thinking was probably “if this nutjob of a fan wants to take it upon himself to be the expert of all things Queensryche and talk about the band all the time – especially during a time when no one is talking about us – then he’s welcome to it.”

Granted, when the legal issues started with band, you could argue that what QR needed was to win the popular opinion amongst fans, and Blackbird certainly made that his mission within the BDR. I’ve said this before, but it’s as if Blackbird said to the band “I know you guys can’t say anything particularly negative about Tate in the press, but I have the platform of the BDR which will allow me to fucking ruin him. At the same time, I’ll prop you guys up. So you keep quiet, I’ll happily do all the work.”

Now did the band specifically need Blackbird? No, they just needed fans like him who would HEY HEY LISTEN TO ME about how bad Tate was and how good the rest of the band was. Not to mention gushing over how good La Torre was. And Blackbird was more than happy to do it, because of his axe to grind with Tate.

I still think my previous description of Blackbird as a disgruntled employee is pretty spot-on. As insane as it sounds, Blackbird probably even considered himself to be an unofficial member of their team, but doing it on the fringe within BDR, promoting the band, promoting Todd and disparaging Tate. And the QR guys were fine with it, because why wouldn’t they be? Some crazy fan willing to put in all that work for FREE? Fuck yes, that was fine with them.

Once the legal dispute was winding down, Blackbird probably came knocking on their door, expecting a handout, maybe even a job as a promoter, who knows? And they told him to go fly a kite. And that’s when all of Blackbird’s anti-QR, anti-Todd behaviour started happening (selling his Rising West stuff, deleting posts, leaving RTM, blowing up the Batcave BDR). So I can totally appreciate where Blackbird would think he was "needed" during that time and how he should’ve got something to show for it.

But he was wrong. ;D


Great post Rock! Your scenario is likely spot-on. Regarding the "legal issues", I agree the only place the declarations helped was in the court of public opinion, but that's it.  ::)

With that, let me pose another question: Does anybody remember if Rustvold mentioned that he informed the band that he was going to post the declarations on his site?

I recall some members asking, but he kept bringing up the "public figure" angle--- ad nauseum. And of course, the WARNING card was the easy way out of those "discussions".  ::)... :-[... :D

In my opinion, the band may have been okay with it initially, but as time went on I believe they eventually came to resent EOL more and more. And rightly so.  >:D

Who knows, maybe we'll be able to "connect the dots" more when the next installment of the Rockox Professional Theatre Company emerges. :D







ted262

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Re: The BEAT DOWN ROOM (BDR)
« Reply #820 on: June 17, 2018, 03:21:22 PM »
Well, considering the band members' home addresses were on the legal documents, I’m sure they were none too happy about him putting them up unedited.

Rockox

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Re: The BEAT DOWN ROOM (BDR)
« Reply #821 on: June 18, 2018, 09:54:11 AM »
Does anybody remember if Rustvold mentioned that he informed the band that he was going to post the declarations on his site?

I recall some members asking, but he kept bringing up the "public figure" angle--- ad nauseum. And of course, the WARNING card was the easy way out of those "discussions".  ::)... :-[... :D

In my opinion, the band may have been okay with it initially, but as time went on I believe they eventually came to resent EOL more and more. And rightly so.  >:D

I think your estimation of the band coming to resent Blackbird is a really good one. Blackbird's efforts might've initially been seen as a positive, but as the years went on, and as Blackbird became more aggressive in his posts and in his "mission", the worse off it was for everyone involved. Whenever I read about the BDR, be it Facebook or other message boards, most (if not all) comments were those about the BDR doing more harm than good in fracturing QR's already dwindling fanbase.

As for whether or not Blackbird mentioned to the band members that he was going to post the declarations, I have no idea. By the time I stumbled upon the BDR, the declarations were already up. Since he was such good buddies with Wilton at the time ::) I'm sure he told them, though if anyone had a problem with it, he probably would've just said the declarations were public documents and that YOU CAN'T SILENCE THE TRUTH!!

Here's a sampling of one of Blackbird's public (but now deleted) posts when he banned someone from the BDR because they moderated Tate's FB page and was allegedly deleting posts. Or something:

You are banned, permanently.

And let this be a warning to Camp Tate -- don't mess with me, my wife, our mods and this forum. We will expose all your bullshit and publicize it for the entire metal and rock world to see. And that's why you lifted the censorship on the Tate QR FB page...because of my threat to take it to Blabbermouth and expose your shady practices.

No, you can't control what we say, and no, we will never, ever, back down. I speak for everyone here in that we have the highest respect and admiration for the musical contributions of Geoff Tate over the years. Personally, my statements praising Geoff's work and past ability are peppered throughout this site and forum, as are those of hundreds of other fans.

But this is the place where free and open discussion about Tate, including criticism of his work, Susan Tate's shoddy management, and Tate's awful conduct over the past years,
ALRIGHT, CALM YOUR TITS, MAN.
That Man/Machine Imperfection guy didn't post too much, but he was pretty much always right.

radardude65

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Re: The BEAT DOWN ROOM (BDR)
« Reply #822 on: June 18, 2018, 11:10:00 AM »
so has he used Dean Wormer as a pseudonym yet? The banned. Permanently. line made me think of double secret probation.  Amazing how the worm turned when the curtains revealed the shady shitty things he was doing.  Pot meet kettle. 

Operation:Queensr˙che

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Re: The BEAT DOWN ROOM (BDR)
« Reply #823 on: June 19, 2018, 01:55:14 PM »

Here's a sampling of one of Blackbird's public (but now deleted) posts when he banned someone from the BDR because they moderated Tate's FB page and was allegedly deleting posts. Or something:

"You are banned, permanently.

And let this be a warning to Camp Tate -- don't mess with me, my wife, our mods and this forum. We will expose all your bullshit and publicize it for the entire metal and rock world to see. And that's why you lifted the censorship on the Tate QR FB page...because of my threat to take it to Blabbermouth and expose your shady practices.

No, you can't control what we say, and no, we will never, ever, back down. I speak for everyone here in that we have the highest respect and admiration for the musical contributions of Geoff Tate over the years. Personally, my statements praising Geoff's work and past ability are peppered throughout this site and forum, as are those of hundreds of other fans.

But this is the place where free and open discussion about Tate, including criticism of his work, Susan Tate's shoddy management, and Tate's awful conduct over the past years,
ALRIGHT, CALM YOUR TITS, MAN."
 

 :o... :D... ::)


Just another example of EOL allowing his emotions to get the best of him.

It's also the PERFECT example of Rustvold only being concerned with protecting himself, the wife, and the mods---- NOT THE MEMBERS.





Operation:Queensr˙che

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Re: The BEAT DOWN ROOM (BDR)
« Reply #824 on: August 08, 2018, 10:17:08 PM »
I'll gladly go on record again and say it was the GREATEST post on the old site since it re-opened.  :D

Oh I don't know about that. The thread I started "Put Your Lips Together and Blow: The Whistling Discussion" was pretty damn good.  ;D

were you also the one who made the remark about EOL's embellishments of his/their impact being "hubris"? That was BRILLIANT! Or was that the "real" M/MI? PLEASE.... post that if you have it!  8)

Sadly no, that was the "real" M/MI who posted that. If I remember correctly, Grappler was replying to my comments in the paragraph that starts "Did he even know the review came from you." I was suggesting that maybe Todd saw the link to the BDR and thought "a review on Blackbird's fan forum? Fuck that, I'm not reading that" and then didn't bother clicking the link, because it could've been a review from NJF for all he knew.

But Grappler replied, talking about how all the members of QR knew what the BDR was and who ran it, and how the BDR was the biggest QR discussion site in the universe. And I wasn't refuting that at all. Obviously QR knew what the BDR was. But I was postulating that maybe Todd saw that it was a review link from the BDR - a site that didn't receive an official promo copy of the album for review - and didn't even click on the damn thing (I personally think Todd DID read it and simply didn't acknowledge it, but that's neither here nor there). The fact is I was suggesting something that the admins said was completely out of the realm of possibility.

Grappler said everyone in QR knew what the BDR was and who wrote the review and that it was laughable to suggest otherwise. The "real" M/MI posted something like "That may be true, Grappler. It may also be hubris." And I knew that wasn't the case, but it was still really funny to have their feathers ruffled like that.


Just visiting a classic blast-from-the-past! In retrospect, I'd never seen End Of Line respond that fast to someone's post. One of the MANY times his emotions got the best of him. To this day, it remains the most memorable for me.  ;D... >:D