Author Topic: When should a band hang it up?  (Read 777 times)

radardude65

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When should a band hang it up?
« on: February 12, 2018, 07:36:05 AM »
Lots of turmoil the last few weeks with announced farewell tours and other health issues and deaths affecting bands. 

When should a band pull the plug on touring/recording under their name?

With the internet and social media one only has to go to the comments section on a site like  Blabbbermouth to find how people feel on a band and previous members.

No Steve Perry, no Journey
No Ace and Peter, No KISS
No Sebastian Bach, No Skid Row
No Geoff Tate, No Queensryche
No KK Downing, No Judas Priest
No Bill Ward, No Black Sabbath

The list goes on.  Some is in jest, some is with all seriousness.  Almost all bands go through change in their careers.  Some is what they need to make it over the hump (AJ Pero joining Twisted Sister, Bruce Dickinson with Iron Maiden, Midge Ure with Ultravox, Scott Gorham and Brian Robertson with Thin Lizzy) others needed to get a cancer out of the mix no matter what the career implications might be (Tate from Queensryche, DiAnno from Iron Maiden, Bach from Skid Row, Pete Willis from Def Leppard, Kottak from Scorpions, Jordison from Slipknot).  Bands are a marriage. Marriages between two people struggle and need work to thrive and many dont survive.  Try that with two, three, or more folks in the mix.  Life priorities change, visions for the bands direction change, ego takes over logic. 

Should Black Sabbath stopped under that name when Ronnie Dio joined after Ozzy's departure in the late 70's? 

Should Queensryche have kept on as Rising West after Tate's ouster?



 


Dream Evil

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Re: When should a band hang it up?
« Reply #1 on: February 12, 2018, 11:54:31 AM »
All the ones you mentioned there I'm fine with. All of those are just the blabbermouth idiot commenters being morons. The whole Bill Ward thing is a joke as he had spent quite a bit of time out of Sabbath anyway.

Skid Rowe, Journey, and Priest still have most of the other members intact.

Iommi, however kept Sabbath going to long after the initial Dio run with a revolving cast of members through the 80's and leading up to the Dio lineup reunion for Dehumanizer, that situation started to become a joke.

Foreigner with only Mick Jones is a stretch.

Queensryche is fine having three originals in the lineup, they deserved the name and should not have changed the name. Singer changes (and for some bands multiple singer changes) have pretty much become the norm. If Geoff would have got the name it would have been him and Kelly gray and a bunch of changing fill ins that probably would have resembled all of Rainbow's lineup changes as Kelly is no longer even involved in his band. He would have made a total joke of the Queensryche name had he won the rights.

Styx come to mind also, I'm ok with DeYoung out as they have held a pretty steady lineup since and are a very good live show. Can't fault death and health ( in the case of the Panozzo brothers).

Kiss, I'm ok with half the band. As looking back multiple guitarists and drummers have been in the band.

 

Eye9

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Re: When should a band hang it up?
« Reply #2 on: February 12, 2018, 08:21:09 PM »
Like DE said, Sabbath was fine when Dio came in because it began with Ward still in the band. So you had 3/4 of Sabbath. Even when Vinny replaced Ward, still had 1/2 of Sabbath. I'm fine with half of any four piece. Seventh Star up through Tyr... NO, and then after Cross Purposes and the Dio reunion , Iommi did it again with Forgettable (aka Forbidden).

Queensryche was fine also with 3/5 the original members. If Scott leaves 2/5 is a stretch and that is where I think it starts to become a little bit of slippery slope for a lot of fans.

Bands with one band member I don't give a shit who that member might be, be it a lead guitarist, lead singer, primary songwriter or otherwise. When it gets down to one last band member remaining, It's time to retire the band name and call it that individuals band (sine we pick on Foreigner a lot ex: The mick Jones Band) not the band that produced all of the music I think that is an untrue representation and cash grab at that point.

In my opinion Chicago is very debatable, yes they still have four members but all their early rocking stuff was wrote primarily by Kath and Cetera, and all the big hit ballads of later years primarily by Cetera (both gone) as is the whole rhythm section. All that is left is the horn section and keyboardist/songwriter/ sometimes vocalist Robert Lamm. To me the horns were always complimentary at least on the majority of their biggest hit songs anyway. There is argument to be had for sure with numerous bands.   

radardude65

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Re: When should a band hang it up?
« Reply #3 on: February 12, 2018, 09:01:45 PM »
Y & T is an interesting exception for me.  Meniketti has such a distinctive voice (which has held up well) and is a phenomenal lead guitarist and is the primary songwriter.  Bass player passed in 2011.  Other guitarist left but was suffering from medical issues for years.   Drummer left after he joined again due to COPD issues.  He'd jam with the band at an annual show they'd do in Bay Area and he'd be on O2 while he was drumming.  Both he and other guitarist passed away last year. 

Agree with you on Chicago.  After Kath left us, band wasnt the same for me.  Chicago gets the press for having the horn section but the real spark was Kath. 

The thing that gets me with Foreigner is you may get a show without Jones even so its really just a cover band at  that point. 

Coverdale needs to shut the Snake show down.  I give him props for still putting out new material and he is a phenomenal frontman.  But holy crap his voice is shot when it comes down to doing anything from Slip Of The Tongue back.  20 minutes or more of the set is guitar and drum solos and then the extended crowd participation.  Saw them at Rocklahoma 5 or 6 years ago and it was painful to hear. Maybe he needs to go the route of Ian Anderson and hire a singer to do the earlier material and just stick to the later material (Nevermore on) and stage patter.

Sabbath is a weird one.  Every time they wanted to not call it Sabbath, record company said no we want it as a Sabbath release.  I like  Born Again.  I like Seventh Star.  I like most of the Martin records (Forbidden has some great riffs at least and will like to hear it if Iommi remixes it).  Probably should have fought harder with IRS Records to rename the Martin era something besides Sabbath. 


Operation:Queensr˙che

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Re: When should a band hang it up?
« Reply #4 on: February 12, 2018, 10:16:33 PM »

Bands with ONE band member I don't give a shit who that member might be, be it a lead guitarist, lead singer, primary songwriter or otherwise. When it gets down to one last band member remaining, It's time to retire the band name and call it that individuals band (since we pick on Foreigner a lot ex: The Mick Jones Band) not the band that produced all of the music I think that is an untrue representation and cash grab at that point.
 


Agreed 100% Eye9! At that point, it's absolutely DISGRACEFUL, not to mention SHAMEFUL>:(... :-[

In Queensryche's case, once the two parties went to court, the name should have been changed at least during that time. The judge in that case made a TERRIBLE decision.

In Sabbath's case, I think too much is made of the "record company" line as the reason for Iommi to keep the Black Sabbath name. Personally, I call bullshit on that.

He owned the name by then and he wanted people to know it. It's too easy to blame the record company and/or management. At what point does Iommi take responsibility for that ill-fated decision? In my opinion, Tony simply passed the buck. P.R. clusterfuck indeed! :-[


Eye9

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Re: When should a band hang it up?
« Reply #5 on: February 13, 2018, 06:45:19 PM »
Yeah, we agree on that point definitely. It becomes a milking the cow embarrassment. As far as Iommi, yeah he milked it to death too, greed and ego were to blame not the fucking record company.   

radardude65

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Re: When should a band hang it up?
« Reply #6 on: February 20, 2018, 06:54:30 PM »
I'm going to throw Queen under the bus.  I was OK somewhat when they toured with Paul Rodgers.  Vocally it was better than I expected and Paul is a frontman on a level with Freddie.  I've not been able to figure out why Brian and Roger picked Adam Lambert to sing with them.  This guy's voice is like nails on a blackboard to me.  Just doesn't have the frontman gene.  At least they had the courtesy to bill themselves as Queen + (singer).  I keep getting the ads popping up to get tix for their upcoming shows this summer in my area and just had to vent.  No I'm not going lol.

Eye9

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Re: When should a band hang it up?
« Reply #7 on: February 20, 2018, 10:51:03 PM »
Yeah, Queen definitely fine by me to throw under a bus. That was cool the first time. This is how many times now. That should've been a one off thing and then retired.

radardude65

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Re: When should a band hang it up?
« Reply #8 on: February 21, 2018, 10:23:49 AM »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XIGJECUU2rE

Found this on the web. Nate Ruess is the lead singer from Fun and I loved his duet with Pink a few years ago.  Why did Queen hang on to Lambert after performing with this guy?  Way better than Lambert. 

Rockox

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Re: When should a band hang it up?
« Reply #9 on: February 21, 2018, 11:00:40 AM »
I'm gonna give the nerd answer and say that if a band can still bring in audiences, no matter how few original members a band has or how many holograms are up on stage, then that band is free to run that shit into the ground if they want to. If a band is still willing to go out and perform and there are people to throw wads of cash for it, then more power to 'em.
That Man/Machine Imperfection guy didn't post too much, but he was pretty much always right.

NJFIREFIGHTER

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Re: When should a band hang it up?
« Reply #10 on: July 18, 2018, 11:20:08 PM »
I'll add a few.

Nazareth: When the only member that had anything to do with your heyday is the 71 year old bass player and the band sounds nothing like it once did.

The Guess Who: for the same reason mentioned above except it's the 73 year old drummer and the band does not sound or relate to it's former glory.

Ratt: just because they've beat themselves into the ground to the point that ...for Christ sakes, go away with some dignity already.  ;D

Dokken: Don can no longer sing better than any average Joe singing his shit in a local bar on karaoke night. And I've witnessed it a few times.

Champion of the Queensryche Board Wars :)

NJFIREFIGHTER

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Re: When should a band hang it up?
« Reply #11 on: July 18, 2018, 11:23:39 PM »
Ozzy, Alice Cooper, Kiss, Deep Purple.... All these main guy's are in their late sixties, early seventies why do they continue to punish themselves physically. These guys can't possibly need more money.
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radardude65

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Re: When should a band hang it up?
« Reply #12 on: July 19, 2018, 06:01:11 PM »
In Ozzy's case, his c u next tuesday that owns his ass needs more money. 

I think in Kiss's case, they lost a lot due to bad investments and career decisions in the late 70's early 80's and didn't know how to stop once they got back into the black ink on the ledgers.  When you almost lose everything , work hard to get it back, there is a recurring nightmare that you could lose it again so you keep working harder.  Gene just said in an interview that they might get to 74 or 75 and then quit but I think this jaunt they start next January will be the last roundup.  He did bring up a good point in that they do put a lot of physical effort playing the show in full face makeup, very high platform shoes, and moving around the stage all show for close to two hours.  Paul has had hip replacement surgery as well as shoulder surgery.  His voice is pretty well shot. 

Part on me thinks Deep Purple (Gillan especially) is trying to outwait Blackmore, hoping he'll quit/die before they do.  Other than Gillan's vocal issues, these guys genuinely enjoy playing together live and it shows.

Alice is in the same boat as still enjoying playing live, his vocals are still pretty good, and his live band is tight.  He really enjoys being the stepping stone for guitarists especially.  Plus he can right off all the golfing he does on tour (he really does golf every day on tour) as business expenses. 

Dream Evil

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Re: When should a band hang it up?
« Reply #13 on: July 24, 2018, 05:02:11 PM »
Cooper and Purple still sound good and definitely are the better half of that group of four presently without question.