Author Topic: The Verdict (March 1, 2019) Album Discussion  (Read 7885 times)

Eye9

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Re: The Verdict (March 1, 2019) Album Discussion
« Reply #105 on: March 05, 2019, 01:12:36 PM »
Really strong album. My early favorites are dark reverie, launder, bent, and portrait.

ShadowWalker

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Re: The Verdict (March 1, 2019) Album Discussion
« Reply #106 on: March 05, 2019, 02:34:51 PM »
We've got a thread where a couple of us are talking about the short set too, SW. 8)

I think the band also benefits from having two Todd-fronted albums already under its belt. I'm finding I'm not really comparing this album to the entirety of Queensryche's catalogue, but moreso to the last two albums with Todd. Which is a far more relevant comparison and discussion, in my opinion.

Bands can still forge their own identity after a key personnel change even on that first album. I think back to the first time I heard Helloween's Master of the Rings. Instantly my second favorite Helloween album behind Keeper Part 2. That album captured the spirit of classic Helloween but had its own identity with Deris at the helm from the get-go and it evolved from there. The Deris era stands on its own merits, but as the Pumpkins United tour proved, it seamlessly co-exists with the classic Kiske era of the band.

I never heard the TLT-fronted Ryche really have its own identity until this album and being down to two original members has helped them do that, I think. For me, operating under the perspective that the current version of Ryche was trying to fit it into some kind of classic mold clouded my opinion of the first three singles and led the s/t and CH to be judged against the classic catalog (and not fairing well at all for me). But as I listened to the album in full, hearing something that sounds like a unique vision of the four recording members, I heard something that was not trying to fit into that classic box, and it makes it a lot easier to judge it on its own merits and that is making all the difference with me.

I honestly think this band really should have changed its name. It is a lot more constrained by the box that is Queensryche and if it was shed and something new was started, I think this collective may have had a better path to get to where they are now, at least from an artistic vision standpoint. I get why they don't, but I am not sure it was the right decision to carry on as Queensryche.

Part of that is I don't think the two eras fit seamlessly the way Helloween does. I have a few setlist playlists on my iPod (one combining both legs of the Condition Human tour and one with all songs played on the current tour) and to my ears they don't seamlessly fit. Even going back to Helloween, listening to Deris sing the Kiske era tracks, it still worked. I am so hit or miss with TLT. I saw a clip of him doing NM156 and didn't care for it. Never liked his take on The Whisper. The songs from the The Warning and the EP  in general work, but not much else for me does.

But working back to my point, it is good they are emphasizing the newer material. I actually like that. If they keep on progressing from The Verdict, I would love to see the shows comprise mostly of TLT-era stuff with only a few token classics thrown in. This really is a different band and this album to me show it. Let that vision shine.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2019, 02:37:28 PM by ShadowWalker »

Eye9

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Re: The Verdict (March 1, 2019) Album Discussion
« Reply #107 on: March 05, 2019, 02:57:58 PM »
I don't really see any need for this whole "the band should have or should change their name" thing, and I've read comments on various sites that there is always a few people saying that. Why should they? I can name probably a hundred and fifty bands classic rock, metal, you name the genre, that have one, two, original or classic lineup members left, some even have none. They didn't change their name. Some have even changed so drastically in their material that their newer music is totally unrecognizable from their beginnings. Why change their name??? Savatage didn't do it, nor did Pantera when they came out of their hair metal beginings. I could list a multitude of them.   

NJFIREFIGHTER

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Re: The Verdict (March 1, 2019) Album Discussion
« Reply #108 on: March 05, 2019, 03:32:28 PM »
I don't have time to get into that whole debate about the band name, set list and duration right now. I'm swamped with work but I'll have some comments on that later. But I did listen to the album in full multiple times Saturday night and it is really good. This album kicks ass. It's every bit as good as Condition Human, it may even be better from a total package standpoint.

And YAY my deluxe package 2 cd set came in the mail today  8) can't wait to dig into that at some point.
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Dream Evil

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Re: The Verdict (March 1, 2019) Album Discussion
« Reply #109 on: March 06, 2019, 04:27:29 PM »
We've got a thread where a couple of us are talking about the short set too, SW. 8)

I think the band also benefits from having two Todd-fronted albums already under its belt. I'm finding I'm not really comparing this album to the entirety of Queensryche's catalogue, but moreso to the last two albums with Todd. Which is a far more relevant comparison and discussion, in my opinion.

Bands can still forge their own identity after a key personnel change even on that first album. I think back to the first time I heard Helloween's Master of the Rings. Instantly my second favorite Helloween album behind Keeper Part 2. That album captured the spirit of classic Helloween but had its own identity with Deris at the helm from the get-go and it evolved from there. The Deris era stands on its own merits, but as the Pumpkins United tour proved, it seamlessly co-exists with the classic Kiske era of the band.

I never heard the TLT-fronted Ryche really have its own identity until this album and being down to two original members has helped them do that, I think. For me, operating under the perspective that the current version of Ryche was trying to fit it into some kind of classic mold clouded my opinion of the first three singles and led the s/t and CH to be judged against the classic catalog (and not fairing well at all for me). But as I listened to the album in full, hearing something that sounds like a unique vision of the four recording members, I heard something that was not trying to fit into that classic box, and it makes it a lot easier to judge it on its own merits and that is making all the difference with me.

I honestly think this band really should have changed its name. It is a lot more constrained by the box that is Queensryche and if it was shed and something new was started, I think this collective may have had a better path to get to where they are now, at least from an artistic vision standpoint. I get why they don't, but I am not sure it was the right decision to carry on as Queensryche.

Part of that is I don't think the two eras fit seamlessly the way Helloween does. I have a few setlist playlists on my iPod (one combining both legs of the Condition Human tour and one with all songs played on the current tour) and to my ears they don't seamlessly fit. Even going back to Helloween, listening to Deris sing the Kiske era tracks, it still worked. I am so hit or miss with TLT. I saw a clip of him doing NM156 and didn't care for it. Never liked his take on The Whisper. The songs from the The Warning and the EP  in general work, but not much else for me does.

But working back to my point, it is good they are emphasizing the newer material. I actually like that. If they keep on progressing from The Verdict, I would love to see the shows comprise mostly of TLT-era stuff with only a few token classics thrown in. This really is a different band and this album to me show it. Let that vision shine.

The band should have changed their name? You said on DTF you were going to see Y&T last night. Shouldn't they change or have changed their name too? what do they have one member left. Granted he is the main guy but still. He should be called Dave Meniketti not Y&T he is one fucking guy  ???
That said, how was the show?   

NJFIREFIGHTER

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Re: The Verdict (March 1, 2019) Album Discussion
« Reply #110 on: March 07, 2019, 01:43:56 AM »
First off, apologies for my extended sabbatical from here, just a case of dealing with life for awhile. Nothing life threatening, this stuff just got pushed off the page for awhile.

This is the first QR platter that I have enjoyed overall on the first listen since Empire.  The first three songs that got the lyric video releases alone told me I'd enjoy the rest of the disc.   I get the bulk of my music now via Amazon Unlimited so I downloaded the album Friday and have run through it top to bottom once and get the songs as they bounce thru my random shuffle.  The only other QR in my downloaded list to my devices are The Warning and Rage For Order in full, Best I Can, Empire, Anybody Listening from Empire, Scarborough Fair, Real World, and Heaven On Their Minds.  This new one will stay in the mix too. 

Besides the three previously released tunes, I really like Launder The Conscience and Propaganda Fashion. 

I knew Todd was a pretty good drummer but he's done really well on this album.  I love how Parker has really come into his own.  Ed and Michael are spot on as well.

Great to see ya brother, Hope all is well.

Yes great record. Thoroughly enjoying this one. I think the drums are more than adequate on the record. Parker has had his hand in a couple of classic tracks now as has Ed Bass. Todd and Michael shine throughout.

I really love Blood of the Levant, Man the Machine, Light Years, Dark Reverie, Bent, Launder the Conscience and Portrait.
Inside Out, Propaganda Fashion, and Inner Unrest are the three weaker tracks to my ears upon a handful of listens. Maybe they'll grow on me. Each of the last three albums had about three songs each that I thought were weaker than the rest. Not bad songs, just not as appealing or must listens on every play.
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NJFIREFIGHTER

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Re: The Verdict (March 1, 2019) Album Discussion
« Reply #111 on: March 07, 2019, 01:51:50 AM »
I don't really see any need for this whole "the band should have or should change their name" thing, and I've read comments on various sites that there is always a few people saying that. Why should they? I can name probably a hundred and fifty bands classic rock, metal, you name the genre, that have one, two, original or classic lineup members left, some even have none. They didn't change their name. Some have even changed so drastically in their material that their newer music is totally unrecognizable from their beginnings. Why change their name??? Savatage didn't do it, nor did Pantera when they came out of their hair metal beginings. I could list a multitude of them.

Yeah, the whole premise of the band changing the name is a bunch of bullshit. There are so many fuckin bands out there, including many that I like, that are hanging by a thread with only a couple or in some cases only one remaining member. If they still draw and have a fan base more power to them. My only major beef is when there is none left, or in a few cases of major household name bands that had booku major hits and mainstream success (looking at you Foreigner and Boston) that are reduced to one member. 
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Buelinator

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Re: The Verdict (March 1, 2019) Album Discussion
« Reply #112 on: March 07, 2019, 03:56:21 PM »
Finally got around to buying the album (yesterday), which is odd for me - usually pre-order or day of release buyer - tight budget these days :P
After a couple listens, can say I'm fairly happy with the sound & direction they're taking - lots of layers in the music to discover. Good proggy stuff here & there with plenty of heavy moments. And I think Todd did a great job on the skins. 8)  Well done, QR!

Eye9

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Re: The Verdict (March 1, 2019) Album Discussion
« Reply #113 on: March 07, 2019, 08:27:28 PM »
Finally got around to buying the album (yesterday), which is odd for me - usually pre-order or day of release buyer - tight budget these days :P
After a couple listens, can say I'm fairly happy with the sound & direction they're taking - lots of layers in the music to discover. Good proggy stuff here & there with plenty of heavy moments. And I think Todd did a great job on the skins. 8)  Well done, QR!

agree on all  8) and very pleased with the drums. Liking it more and more with each listen. 

Eye9

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Re: The Verdict (March 1, 2019) Album Discussion
« Reply #114 on: March 07, 2019, 08:43:05 PM »
Giving the deluxe edition bonus disc a couple spins right now. I really like the acoustic I dream in infrared and open road. I think they did both of those really well. Man, I forgot how great of a song open road is. That song fits right up among their best ever I think.

The condition human bonus tracks hold up well. I really like mercury rising and espiritu muerto quite a lot. 46 north is a little redundant on the lyrics and not as good as the other ones.

Haven't listened to the 2013 live bonus tracks in a while. man Todd fucking nails queen of the ryche great version has to be one of the best versions I've heard period (can't seem to get the visual of samsara jumpin around like a little girl at the rising west shows with a wet spot on the front of his pants out of my head, I wonder what happened to little skippy for such a change of heart)  ;D :-\ >:D anyway, en force and eyes of a stranger are great versions as well. Prophecy never did much for me but it sounds decent here. 

Rockox

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Re: The Verdict (March 1, 2019) Album Discussion
« Reply #115 on: March 12, 2019, 04:08:50 PM »
I honestly think this band really should have changed its name. It is a lot more constrained by the box that is Queensryche and if it was shed and something new was started, I think this collective may have had a better path to get to where they are now, at least from an artistic vision standpoint. I get why they don't, but I am not sure it was the right decision to carry on as Queensryche.

If the guys had changed their name, I think it would've benefitted them creatively, because they wouldn't have been constricted to the "Queensryche style" while they were writing. I mean, you heard that in interviews with Todd, where he said he had to sing a certain way so that it "sounded like Queensryche."

Also, if the guys had changed their name, it likely would've benefitted them as far as the setlist goes, because they wouldn't have to put ANY Queensryche songs in there if they didn't want to. They could maybe put a couple in there if they wanted, but it certainly wouldn't be expected. Silent Lucidity and Jet City Woman? I betcha we'd never hear those songs again if they were Rising West. And (selfishly) it'd be glorious.

But let's be honest. Not many people give a shit about Queensryche, and even LESS would give a shit about ex-members of Queensryche in their own band, and the guys would've had a hell of a time getting their name out there. So financially it was a smart move for the guys to fight for the name, even though paying out Tate is likely still killing them.
The problem is that you are correct.

Setzer

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Re: The Verdict (March 1, 2019) Album Discussion
« Reply #116 on: March 14, 2019, 12:58:17 PM »
2013 self-titled topped at 23, selling 13,659 copies in its first week of release in the United States.
CH followed at 27, selling 14,000 copies in its first week of release in the United States.
The Verdict is entering at 110: https://billboard.com/charts/billboard-200 - sales haven't been published yet AFAIK.
However The Verdict is also listed at 16 in the album sales chart: https://billboard.com/music/queensryche/chart-history/top-album-sales
Not sure what that is about.
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NJFIREFIGHTER

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Re: The Verdict (March 1, 2019) Album Discussion
« Reply #117 on: March 16, 2019, 02:51:28 AM »
Well, my take away from that chart position, especially after viewing the list, is  while that sounds like a shitty landing spot on the charts , it isn't really, it's actually quite a positive in the fact that.
1) It smoked Dream Theatre Distance Over Time (at 190).

The only other hard rock/metal bands on the whole damn list is Demon Hunter (who I've never heard of) in addition to best of collections by Five Finger Death Punch, GNR, and The Chili Peppers, along with AC/DC Back in Black, Metallica Black Album and Nirvana Nevermind. So three New releases from hard rock/metal bands made that list. Just the fact that Queensryche even made it is impressive and it fared much better than Dream Theatre.

The other take away from that list is that todays popular music and music trends SUCK!!!     
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